Discussion:
Help needed, making a real admin tool for SOGO, needs commands.
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administrator
2013-02-20 21:38:54 UTC
Permalink
SOGo looks promising, but the sheer amount of bad user interfaces to manage it and stuff like that is staggering.

What was I expecting?

1) Install the ZEG appliance, at first login tell me the management url: http://192.x.x.x/SOGo

2) I should have been able to log in as sogo to begin with in the web interface

3) From there, I should be able to just type in a list of domains to accept mail for and their settings

4) Also from there I should be able to easily create users for each mail domain (sorta like the windows user manager, at least M$ got that part right)

5) Other misc configs. And scripts to do the same stuff easily from the commandline without having to remember what back ends you were using

What I'm proposing:
Since I only do vb.net I'm kinda screwed in a way because linux mainly supports c#, perl, php, that kind of stuff. Except for the gambas IDE, and bash shell scripts and tools. But even with that, I'd be willing to give it a shot to make a simple user interface to make managing this thing as simple as IIS6 and the local users and groups is on windows. I mean ideally someone would just finish their webmin module but I've got what I've got.

What I need from you guys:
All the command line stuff you know to manage things.
-Add/Delete New user
-Add/Delete New mailbox
Etc...

It's practically faster for me to make the program than figure this stuff out.

-K
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Wayland Sothcott
2013-02-20 21:47:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by administrator
SOGo looks promising, but the sheer amount of bad user interfaces to
manage it and stuff like that is staggering.
What was I expecting?
1)Install the ZEG appliance, at first login tell me the management
url: http://192.x.x.x/SOGo
2)I should have been able to log in as sogo to begin with in the web
interface
3)From there, I should be able to just type in a list of domains to
accept mail for and their settings
4)Also from there I should be able to easily create users for each
mail domain (sorta like the windows user manager, at least M$ got that
part right)
5)Other misc configs. And scripts to do the same stuff easily from the
commandline without having to remember what back ends you were using
Since I only do vb.net I'm kinda screwed in a way because linux mainly
supports c#, perl, php, that kind of stuff. Except for the gambas IDE,
and bash shell scripts and tools. But even with that, I'd be willing
to give it a shot to make a simple user interface to make managing
this thing as simple as IIS6 and the local users and groups is on
windows. I mean ideally someone would just finish their webmin module
but I've got what I've got.
All the command line stuff you know to manage things.
-Add/Delete New user
-Add/Delete New mailbox
Etc...
It's practically faster for me to make the program than figure this stuff out.
-K
I am trying to solve this also. Not from the position of writing the
interface but of finding one that someone has done. As well as looking
at SOGo I am also looking at z-push. This can be integrated with a
server running Debian and ISPConfig. However z-push only works with
mobile devices and not Outlook.

It is a bit of a nightmare making a good solution. Zentyal comes with
Zarafa which has z-push but you don't get native Outlook compatibility
and need a licensed connector to install into Outlook.
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Office: 01787 388165
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Romain LE DISEZ
2013-02-20 22:00:50 UTC
Permalink
Hello,

I wrote this few months ago:
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists/arc/users/2012-10/msg00218.html

Accounts management works fine. Other modules are not implemented for
now. I'm interested to keep this project alive, but if nobody uses it
it will surely die.

It clearly lacks of documentation. If you want to test it, just tell me
and I'll write it.

Tell me if you're interested to test/contribute/...

Source code is still here:
https://github.com/rledisez/SOGoAccountsManager

--
Romain LE DISEZ
administrator
2013-02-20 22:24:29 UTC
Permalink
Looks very nice from the screen shots, simple and familiar looking. Pretty efficient approach too. I'll check it out later tonight.

I haven't created any user who can log into sogo yet though, it looked ludicrous. I wrote a script as I was reading because it was complicated to follow. Maybe someone will find it useful. I haven't tested it yet, I was gonna create my first user with it but haven't had a minute.

I called it add_ldap_user.sh

# SYNTAX:
# create_user_ldap "jdoe" "John" "Doe" "***@example.com"

# VARIABLES THAT ARE MUCH EASIER TO READ
USERID=$1
FIRSTNAME=$2
LASTNAME=$3
FULLNAME=$2 $3
EMAIL=$4

# EMAIL DOMAIN SETTINGS
OU=users
DC1=example
DC2=com

# FILE AND FOLDER SETTINGS
USERFOLDER="~\users"
USERFILE="$USERFOLDER\$1.ldif"

# CREATE A USER FOLDER TO STORE THE LDIF FILES
mkdir $USERFOLDER

# CREATE THE LDIF FILE
echo "dn: uid=$USERID,ou=$OU,dc=$DC1,dc=$DC2 \n" > $USERFILE
echo "objectClass: top \n" >> $USERFILE
echo "objectClass: inetOrgPerson \n" >> $USERFILE
echo "objectClass: person \n" >> $USERFILE
echo "objectclass: organizationalPerson \n" >> $USERFILE
echo "uid: $USERID \n" >> $USERPROFILE
echo "cn: $FULLNAME \n" >> $USERPROFILE
echo "mail: $EMAIL \n" >> $USERPROFILE
echo "sn: $LASTNAME \n" >> $USERPROFILE
echo "givenName: $FIRSTNAME" >> $USERPROFILE

# LOAD THE LDIF INTO LDAP
ldapadd -f $USERFILE -x -w qwerty -D cn=Manager,dc=$DC1,dc=$DC2
ldappasswd -h localhost -x -w qwerty -D cn=Manager,dc=$DC1,dc=$DC2 cn=Manager,dc=$DC1,dc=$DC2 uid=$USERID,ou=$OU,dc=$DC1,dc=$DC2 -s




-----Original Message-----
From: Romain LE DISEZ [mailto:***@ledisez.net]
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 5:01 PM
To: ***@sogo.nu
Cc: Wayland Sothcott
Subject: Re: [SOGo] Help needed, making a real admin tool for SOGO, needs commands.

Hello,

I wrote this few months ago:
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists/arc/users/2012-10/msg00218.html

Accounts management works fine. Other modules are not implemented for now. I'm interested to keep this project alive, but if nobody uses it it will surely die.

It clearly lacks of documentation. If you want to test it, just tell me and I'll write it.

Tell me if you're interested to test/contribute/...

Source code is still here:
https://github.com/rledisez/SOGoAccountsManager
--
Romain LE DISEZ
--
***@sogo.nu
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
--
***@sogo.nu
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lis
Steve Ankeny
2013-02-20 23:06:24 UTC
Permalink
Forgive my ignorance, but I think you're making it too difficult!

I am not familiar with changing the domain (had that done by Inverse)

However, creating new users was a cinch with 'webmin' You simply cloned
the existing 'sogo' user and changed all the particulars necessary.
Then you created the mailbox in 'cyrus,' and it was done.

Works wonderfully! And, doesn't take all the work discussed here.

After that, it was simply a matter of installing the lightning,
connector and integrator extensions in TB And, if you run Outlook, you
simply point to the right ip_address, and Outlook takes care of the rest.

Again, sorry for my ignorance. I think it would be great to create an
administrative module for 'webmin' that changed the domain (integrated
with 'Samba') and created users, but it shouldn't be hard.

The work submitted by Romain looks very good to me! If anything, that
work should be supported.
Post by administrator
Looks very nice from the screen shots, simple and familiar looking. Pretty efficient approach too. I'll check it out later tonight.
I haven't created any user who can log into sogo yet though, it looked ludicrous. I wrote a script as I was reading because it was complicated to follow. Maybe someone will find it useful. I haven't tested it yet, I was gonna create my first user with it but haven't had a minute.
administrator
2013-02-20 23:19:04 UTC
Permalink
This is where my confusion is, since I couldn't log into the sogo web page as sogo as I expected:

a) If I'm making a user with a mailbox, is it a linux/Ubuntu user? Or Is it an ldap user? Both?
b) What component actually stores the mailboxes and creates them? (cyrus I'm guessing?)

sogo is my admin user, and that's cool. But it didn't appear to come with a mailbox. I use active directory ldap tools all the time, but webmin is just a bunch of textboxes for managing LDAP. This is why when I saw the account manager my eyes sparkled.

All I'm trying to do is change my mail receiving domain -> flmiami.com
Create a new mailbox called '***@flmiami.com'
I see install guides, but not really admin guides for actually doing day to day stuff.

It's the ZEG version. I believe Ubuntu + Cyrus + LDAP Server + PostgreSQL + SOGo


-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Ankeny [mailto:***@cinergymetro.net]
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 6:06 PM
To: ***@sogo.nu
Subject: Re: [SOGo] Help needed, making a real admin tool for SOGO, needs commands.

Forgive my ignorance, but I think you're making it too difficult!

I am not familiar with changing the domain (had that done by Inverse)

However, creating new users was a cinch with 'webmin' You simply cloned the existing 'sogo' user and changed all the particulars necessary.
Then you created the mailbox in 'cyrus,' and it was done.

Works wonderfully! And, doesn't take all the work discussed here.

After that, it was simply a matter of installing the lightning, connector and integrator extensions in TB And, if you run Outlook, you simply point to the right ip_address, and Outlook takes care of the rest.

Again, sorry for my ignorance. I think it would be great to create an administrative module for 'webmin' that changed the domain (integrated with 'Samba') and created users, but it shouldn't be hard.

The work submitted by Romain looks very good to me! If anything, that work should be supported.
Post by administrator
Looks very nice from the screen shots, simple and familiar looking. Pretty efficient approach too. I'll check it out later tonight.
I haven't created any user who can log into sogo yet though, it looked ludicrous. I wrote a script as I was reading because it was complicated to follow. Maybe someone will find it useful. I haven't tested it yet, I was gonna create my first user with it but haven't had a minute.
--
***@sogo.nu
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
--
***@sogo.nu
https://in
Steve Ankeny
2013-02-20 23:46:40 UTC
Permalink
As I said, I do not know how to change the domain from 'example.com'
(Inverse did that)

Can you login to 'webmin?'

Once there, go to LDAP Server | Browse Database |
ou=people,dc=example,dc=com

Edit the 'sogo1' user if you're having problems logging in.

Then choose 'Clone this object' at the bottom and create each new user.
Edit the details as needed.

To create the mailbox, login to 'cyrus' as admin:

cyradm --user cyrus localhost

localhost> cm user/username

e.g. localhost> cm user/michael

And, that's it! Simply edit the preferences in 'webmin' and you have it.

Again, I am not opposed to having an accounts management module that
does this for you.
Post by administrator
a) If I'm making a user with a mailbox, is it a linux/Ubuntu user? Or Is it an ldap user? Both?
b) What component actually stores the mailboxes and creates them? (cyrus I'm guessing?)
sogo is my admin user, and that's cool. But it didn't appear to come with a mailbox. I use active directory ldap tools all the time, but webmin is just a bunch of textboxes for managing LDAP. This is why when I saw the account manager my eyes sparkled.
All I'm trying to do is change my mail receiving domain -> flmiami.com
I see install guides, but not really admin guides for actually doing day to day stuff.
It's the ZEG version. I believe Ubuntu + Cyrus + LDAP Server + PostgreSQL + SOGo
Wayland Sothcott
2013-02-20 23:12:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Romain LE DISEZ
Hello,
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists/arc/users/2012-10/msg00218.html
Accounts management works fine. Other modules are not implemented for
now. I'm interested to keep this project alive, but if nobody uses it
it will surely die.
It clearly lacks of documentation. If you want to test it, just tell
me and I'll write it.
Tell me if you're interested to test/contribute/...
https://github.com/rledisez/SOGoAccountsManager
--
Romain LE DISEZ
It looks to me as if the components are available.
I think we need to turn the ZEG into an ISO that people can use as a
production server.
If we can't do that then we need a procedure like the Perfect Debian
Server guides where anyone can plod through the instructions from the
beginning and end up with a Groupware server at the end.

The hard part of actually creating SOGo and the other components has
been done. But putting it all together is still to hard for me and most
people.

I think this is going to need to be Android compatible too.
--
Mobile: 07925 431381
Office: 01787 388165
administrator
2013-02-20 22:08:22 UTC
Permalink
How are people managing this from day to day right now? From reading the instructions it probably goes something like this:


a) Someone needs a new box

b) Admin guy takes about a good 10 - 15 mins trying to remember the commands, probably stumbles around a bit

c) Admin guy tries to iron out the problems because of missed steps or misspellings




I was thinking of programming it all in asp.net running (in apache since I'm guessing most linux distros can install that without an x desktop. I can somewhat easily convert vb.net -> c# and use the stuff I'm used to. I've written console apps before as well in windows that run in linux using mono.

You guys can help start making a list of all the commands you guys use on a regular basis, or to change settings etc...
After that, anyone can write a front end without having to know what's in the back end like postfix/cyrus. I can make android and windows app ones, I hate writing web apps though so I'll leave that to someone else. The android one interests me because I get most of my annoying support calls in the mornings and I don't really want to get out of bed for some email problem when I can go right back to sleep.

-K

From: Wayland Sothcott [mailto:wayland-***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 4:47 PM
To: users-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [SOGo] Help needed, making a real admin tool for SOGO, needs commands.

On 20/02/2013 21:38, administrator wrote:
SOGo looks promising, but the sheer amount of bad user interfaces to manage it and stuff like that is staggering.

What was I expecting?

1) Install the ZEG appliance, at first login tell me the management url: http://192.x.x.x/SOGo

2) I should have been able to log in as sogo to begin with in the web interface

3) From there, I should be able to just type in a list of domains to accept mail for and their settings

4) Also from there I should be able to easily create users for each mail domain (sorta like the windows user manager, at least M$ got that part right)

5) Other misc configs. And scripts to do the same stuff easily from the commandline without having to remember what back ends you were using

What I'm proposing:
Since I only do vb.net I'm kinda screwed in a way because linux mainly supports c#, perl, php, that kind of stuff. Except for the gambas IDE, and bash shell scripts and tools. But even with that, I'd be willing to give it a shot to make a simple user interface to make managing this thing as simple as IIS6 and the local users and groups is on windows. I mean ideally someone would just finish their webmin module but I've got what I've got.

What I need from you guys:
All the command line stuff you know to manage things.
-Add/Delete New user
-Add/Delete New mailbox
Etc...

It's practically faster for me to make the program than figure this stuff out.

-K
I am trying to solve this also. Not from the position of writing the interface but of finding one that someone has done. As well as looking at SOGo I am also looking at z-push. This can be integrated with a server running Debian and ISPConfig. However z-push only works with mobile devices and not Outlook.

It is a bit of a nightmare making a good solution. Zentyal comes with Zarafa which has z-push but you don't get native Outlook compatibility and need a licensed connector to install into Outlook.



--



Mobile: 07925 431381

Office: 01787 388165
--
users-***@public.gmane.org
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Jean-Michel OLTRA
2013-02-21 06:38:41 UTC
Permalink
Bonjour,


Le mercredi 20 février 2013, administrator a écrit...
Post by administrator
How are people managing this from day to day right now? From reading
Look at iRedMail (iRedAdmin) + Apache Directory Studio
--
jm
--
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https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
CF Studelec
2013-02-21 22:52:20 UTC
Permalink
On my side, this is mainly through an LDAP client.

1) SOGo is installed on behalf of DOVECOT/POSTFIX. They auth all on LDAP
database. SASL also rely on LDAP. Salt with Amavis, Postgrey & ClamAv,
and it's a classic mail server.

2) Basically i need a tool for managing LDAP. I use the one provided
with Webmin *OR* Jxplorer, a java tool able to do this.
Post by administrator
How are people managing this from day to day right now? From reading
a) Someone needs a new box
b) Admin guy takes about a good 10 -- 15 mins trying to remember
the commands, probably stumbles around a bit
c) Admin guy tries to iron out the problems because of missed steps or misspellings
I was thinking of programming it all in asp.net running (in apache
since I'm guessing most linux distros can install that without an x
desktop. I can somewhat easily convert vb.net -> c# and use the stuff
I'm used to. I've written console apps before as well in windows that
run in linux using mono.
You guys can help start making a list of all the commands you guys use
on a regular basis, or to change settings etc...
After that, anyone can write a front end without having to know what's
in the back end like postfix/cyrus. I can make android and windows app
ones, I hate writing web apps though so I'll leave that to someone
else. The android one interests me because I get most of my annoying
support calls in the mornings and I don't really want to get out of
bed for some email problem when I can go right back to sleep.
-K
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 20, 2013 4:47 PM
*Subject:* Re: [SOGo] Help needed, making a real admin tool for SOGO,
needs commands.
SOGo looks promising, but the sheer amount of bad user interfaces
to manage it and stuff like that is staggering.
What was I expecting?
1) Install the ZEG appliance, at first login tell me the
management url: http://192.x.x.x/SOGo
2) I should have been able to log in as sogo to begin with in
the web interface
3) From there, I should be able to just type in a list of
domains to accept mail for and their settings
4) Also from there I should be able to easily create users
for each mail domain (sorta like the windows user manager, at
least M$ got that part right)
5) Other misc configs. And scripts to do the same stuff
easily from the commandline without having to remember what back
ends you were using
Since I only do vb.net I'm kinda screwed in a way because linux
mainly supports c#, perl, php, that kind of stuff. Except for the
gambas IDE, and bash shell scripts and tools. But even with that,
I'd be willing to give it a shot to make a simple user interface
to make managing this thing as simple as IIS6 and the local users
and groups is on windows. I mean ideally someone would just finish
their webmin module but I've got what I've got.
All the command line stuff you know to manage things.
-Add/Delete New user
-Add/Delete New mailbox
Etc...
It's practically faster for me to make the program than figure this stuff out.
-K
I am trying to solve this also. Not from the position of writing the
interface but of finding one that someone has done. As well as looking
at SOGo I am also looking at z-push. This can be integrated with a
server running Debian and ISPConfig. However z-push only works with
mobile devices and not Outlook.
It is a bit of a nightmare making a good solution. Zentyal comes with
Zarafa which has z-push but you don't get native Outlook compatibility
and need a licensed connector to install into Outlook.
--
Mobile: 07925 431381
Office: 01787 388165
--
users-***@public.gmane.org
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Szládovics Péter
2013-02-22 06:05:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by CF Studelec
On my side, this is mainly through an LDAP client.
2) Basically i need a tool for managing LDAP. I use the one provided
with Webmin *OR* Jxplorer, a java tool able to do this.
http://phpldapadmin.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
--
users-***@public.gmane.org
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
André Schild
2013-02-22 07:04:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by CF Studelec
On my side, this is mainly through an LDAP client.
2) Basically i need a tool for managing LDAP. I use the one provided
with Webmin *OR* Jxplorer, a java tool able to do this.
Don't forget Apache Directory Studio,
we used JXplorer too, but since finding the Apache Directory Studio we
are using this one.

André
--
users-***@public.gmane.org
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
CF Studelec
2013-02-22 08:14:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by André Schild
Post by CF Studelec
On my side, this is mainly through an LDAP client.
2) Basically i need a tool for managing LDAP. I use the one provided
with Webmin *OR* Jxplorer, a java tool able to do this.
Don't forget Apache Directory Studio,
we used JXplorer too, but since finding the Apache Directory Studio we
are using this one.
André
Thanks for the tip, i'll have a look at it !
--
users-***@public.gmane.org
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
mourik jan heupink
2013-02-22 10:09:02 UTC
Permalink
Hi,
Post by CF Studelec
2) Basically i need a tool for managing LDAP. I use the one provided
with Webmin *OR* Jxplorer, a java tool able to do this.
We're very happy with LAM:
https://www.ldap-account-manager.org/lamcms/

It does exactly what we need, has a very active and responsive
developer, and also has a pro version, where (for example) users can
change their own password, update their details, etc, etc.

MJ
Mark Madere
2013-02-21 18:39:19 UTC
Permalink
Greetings,

I have looked through all the posts on this topic and I would like to add my two cents (, as we say in the US). I think many people commenting on this thread misunderstand SOGo and ZEG.
"The ZEG (Zero Effort Groupware) edition of SOGo is intended to provide a complete out-of-the-box testing environment of SOGo, the Open Source messaging and calendaring software."
"SOGo is fully supported and trusted groupware server with a focus on scalability and open standards. ... SOGo is the missing component of your infrastructure; it sits in the middle of your servers to offer your users an uniform and complete interface to access their information."

So what does that mean? It means ZEG is a virtual appliance to help you understand how SOGo works so you can setup your own servers. It means that SOGo is not a mail server. It is not a directory server. It is not a database server. It means that it has no users to manage.

If you are looking to use a testing environment like ZEG as a production server I think you will be disappointed that it lacks the features required for production. If you are looking to build your own production server, then SOGo can be a great component along side other components. The beauty of SOGo is that it can be configured to work with many systems. And because of that there is no way that SOGo can manage users from every directory/database/posix/etc. server. It is up to each administrator to setup and manage their mail servers, users accounts, databases, etc.. the way they want.

I hope this helps clarify what ZEG and SOGo are, and what they are not.

Mark

ps: If you are looking for turn-key solutions that includes SOGo, there are companies that can help you with that. If you want to roll your own solution and need help Inverse can provide you commercial support.
Wayland Sothcott
2013-02-21 18:50:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Madere
Greetings,
I have looked through all the posts on this topic and I would like to add my two cents (, as we say in the US). I think many people commenting on this thread misunderstand SOGo and ZEG.
"The ZEG (Zero Effort Groupware) edition of SOGo is intended to provide a complete out-of-the-box testing environment of SOGo, the Open Source messaging and calendaring software."
"SOGo is fully supported and trusted groupware server with a focus on scalability and open standards. ... SOGo is the missing component of your infrastructure; it sits in the middle of your servers to offer your users an uniform and complete interface to access their information."
So what does that mean? It means ZEG is a virtual appliance to help you understand how SOGo works so you can setup your own servers. It means that SOGo is not a mail server. It is not a directory server. It is not a database server. It means that it has no users to manage.
If you are looking to use a testing environment like ZEG as a production server I think you will be disappointed that it lacks the features required for production. If you are looking to build your own production server, then SOGo can be a great component along side other components. The beauty of SOGo is that it can be configured to work with many systems. And because of that there is no way that SOGo can manage users from every directory/database/posix/etc. server. It is up to each administrator to setup and manage their mail servers, users accounts, databases, etc.. the way they want.
I hope this helps clarify what ZEG and SOGo are, and what they are not.
Mark
ps: If you are looking for turn-key solutions that includes SOGo, there are companies that can help you with that. If you want to roll your own solution and need help Inverse can provide you commercial support.
I think you have explained what we all know very well and it is the
problem we are trying to solve. We want to roll our own turn key solution.

I don't know where open source software comes from or why. However I
think it's significant that the components are free but putting it
together into something someone can use costs money.

I want to build servers for my customers and charge them money. However
I don't mind freely helping people with what I have learned so they can
build servers for their customers.

If someone is making money from charging us server builders money so we
can build servers, they are not going to be very happy if we figure out
how to help each other for free. Hence why ZEG is not a full turn key
solution. If it was an ISO it would be closer, hence it's a VM.

I think I probably need to change my entire world view.
--
Mobile: 07925 431381
Office: 01787 388165
administrator
2013-02-21 21:48:54 UTC
Permalink
Me personally, it's a personal quest to abolish all things not open source from my workplace (I'm the IT admin/programmer/database/mail guy). I've got spiceworks taking care of watching my network and inventory, and exchange deciding not to send mail on random days at around 11am without reason or any real help in the logs. I've already moved from SCO OpenServer 5 -> Ubuntu 8.04 and had great success, this is the next logical step.

I knew what it was from the start, it's basically just a webmail type website that works with a bunch of common mail servers and other projects allowing for outlook connections. In my case my only benefit would be sleep, and I like sleeping. I was kind of hoping it would just work like webmin, but I see your point about people wanting to roll out their own solutions.

At this point I'm just wondering if I can just do cyrus + postfix + OpenChange. I only need IMAP,MAPI,SMTP,DNS (to make it independent), backups and built in authentication. To be honest, the less the better.

Please correct me if I'm mistaken and cannot do the 3 things above without sogo gluing them together. I realize some people need a web interface, we got outlook and phones so we don't need that.


-----Original Message-----
From: Wayland Sothcott [mailto:***@sothcott.co.uk]
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 1:50 PM
To: ***@sogo.nu
Subject: Re: [SOGo] Help needed, making a real admin tool for SOGO, needs commands.
Post by Mark Madere
Greetings,
I have looked through all the posts on this topic and I would like to add my two cents (, as we say in the US). I think many people commenting on this thread misunderstand SOGo and ZEG.
"The ZEG (Zero Effort Groupware) edition of SOGo is intended to provide a complete out-of-the-box testing environment of SOGo, the Open Source messaging and calendaring software."
"SOGo is fully supported and trusted groupware server with a focus on scalability and open standards. ... SOGo is the missing component of your infrastructure; it sits in the middle of your servers to offer your users an uniform and complete interface to access their information."
So what does that mean? It means ZEG is a virtual appliance to help you understand how SOGo works so you can setup your own servers. It means that SOGo is not a mail server. It is not a directory server. It is not a database server. It means that it has no users to manage.
If you are looking to use a testing environment like ZEG as a production server I think you will be disappointed that it lacks the features required for production. If you are looking to build your own production server, then SOGo can be a great component along side other components. The beauty of SOGo is that it can be configured to work with many systems. And because of that there is no way that SOGo can manage users from every directory/database/posix/etc. server. It is up to each administrator to setup and manage their mail servers, users accounts, databases, etc.. the way they want.
I hope this helps clarify what ZEG and SOGo are, and what they are not.
Mark
ps: If you are looking for turn-key solutions that includes SOGo, there are companies that can help you with that. If you want to roll your own solution and need help Inverse can provide you commercial support.
I think you have explained what we all know very well and it is the problem we are trying to solve. We want to roll our own turn key solution.

I don't know where open source software comes from or why. However I think it's significant that the components are free but putting it together into something someone can use costs money.

I want to build servers for my customers and charge them money. However I don't mind freely helping people with what I have learned so they can build servers for their customers.

If someone is making money from charging us server builders money so we can build servers, they are not going to be very happy if we figure out how to help each other for free. Hence why ZEG is not a full turn key solution. If it was an ISO it would be closer, hence it's a VM.

I think I probably need to change my entire world view.


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Mark Madere
2013-02-22 00:59:29 UTC
Permalink
Are you using Active directory to mange your exchange users? If so you can point SOGo at your AD server and manage your users the same way you always have.

I think rolling cyrus + postfix + OpenChange is an uphill battle. And it won't provide you with an admin tool. Also, are you sure your users don't want/use calendars and contacts?

I like sleep too,
Mark

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [SOGo] Help needed, making a real admin tool for SOGO, needs commands.
Date: Thursday, February 21, 2013 03:48 PM CST
Post by administrator
Me personally, it's a personal quest to abolish all things not open source from my workplace (I'm the IT admin/programmer/database/mail guy). I've got spiceworks taking care of watching my network and inventory, and exchange deciding not to send mail on random days at around 11am without reason or any real help in the logs. I've already moved from SCO OpenServer 5 -> Ubuntu 8.04 and had great success, this is the next logical step.
I knew what it was from the start, it's basically just a webmail type website that works with a bunch of common mail servers and other projects allowing for outlook connections. In my case my only benefit would be sleep, and I like sleeping. I was kind of hoping it would just work like webmin, but I see your point about people wanting to roll out their own solutions.
At this point I'm just wondering if I can just do cyrus + postfix + OpenChange. I only need IMAP,MAPI,SMTP,DNS (to make it independent), backups and built in authentication. To be honest, the less the better.
Please correct me if I'm mistaken and cannot do the 3 things above without sogo gluing them together. I realize some people need a web interface, we got outlook and phones so we don't need that.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [SOGo] Help needed, making a real admin tool for SOGO, needs commands.
Post by Mark Madere
Greetings,
I have looked through all the posts on this topic and I would like to add my two cents (, as we say in the US). I think many people commenting on this thread misunderstand SOGo and ZEG.
"The ZEG (Zero Effort Groupware) edition of SOGo is intended to provide a complete out-of-the-box testing environment of SOGo, the Open Source messaging and calendaring software."
"SOGo is fully supported and trusted groupware server with a focus on scalability and open standards. ... SOGo is the missing component of your infrastructure; it sits in the middle of your servers to offer your users an uniform and complete interface to access their information."
So what does that mean? It means ZEG is a virtual appliance to help you understand how SOGo works so you can setup your own servers. It means that SOGo is not a mail server. It is not a directory server. It is not a database server. It means that it has no users to manage.
If you are looking to use a testing environment like ZEG as a production server I think you will be disappointed that it lacks the features required for production. If you are looking to build your own production server, then SOGo can be a great component along side other components. The beauty of SOGo is that it can be configured to work with many systems. And because of that there is no way that SOGo can manage users from every directory/database/posix/etc. server. It is up to each administrator to setup and manage their mail servers, users accounts, databases, etc.. the way they want.
I hope this helps clarify what ZEG and SOGo are, and what they are not.
Mark
ps: If you are looking for turn-key solutions that includes SOGo, there are companies that can help you with that. If you want to roll your own solution and need help Inverse can provide you commercial support.
I think you have explained what we all know very well and it is the problem we are trying to solve. We want to roll our own turn key solution.
I don't know where open source software comes from or why. However I think it's significant that the components are free but putting it together into something someone can use costs money.
I want to build servers for my customers and charge them money. However I don't mind freely helping people with what I have learned so they can build servers for their customers.
If someone is making money from charging us server builders money so we can build servers, they are not going to be very happy if we figure out how to help each other for free. Hence why ZEG is not a full turn key solution. If it was an ISO it would be closer, hence it's a VM.
I think I probably need to change my entire world view.
--
Mobile: 07925 431381
Office: 01787 388165
--
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
--
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administrator
2013-02-22 01:37:08 UTC
Permalink
I see what you mean, we only really need 1 set of contacts (Not the active directory ones).
It's a contact list, created in a public folder. That is then configured to be the main contact list on all machines with outlook.
Forgot to ask if public folders are supported, that's the only single item that would be useful to create. We don't need to store emails or notes etc...

We have hundreds of AD users that we don't care to see for other types of access, we just have 10 mailbox users. I don't want this machine to have anything to do with any windows machine. I'm eliminating dependencies so even if the entire domain goes down, outlook and it's mail authentication will keep rolling happily along. I know all too well that when anything goes wrong at the active directory/exchange level, it's not just a little problem, it's catastrophic and time consuming. This is my new strategy so that rebooting servers won't affect other servers for stuff that doesn't need that much integration.

-M

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Madere [mailto:***@expandingcommunication.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 7:59 PM
To: ***@sogo.nu
Subject: RE: [SOGo] Help needed, making a real admin tool for SOGO, needs commands.

Are you using Active directory to mange your exchange users? If so you can point SOGo at your AD server and manage your users the same way you always have.

I think rolling cyrus + postfix + OpenChange is an uphill battle. And it won't provide you with an admin tool. Also, are you sure your users don't want/use calendars and contacts?

I like sleep too,
Mark

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [SOGo] Help needed, making a real admin tool for SOGO, needs commands.
Date: Thursday, February 21, 2013 03:48 PM CST
Post by administrator
Me personally, it's a personal quest to abolish all things not open source from my workplace (I'm the IT admin/programmer/database/mail guy). I've got spiceworks taking care of watching my network and inventory, and exchange deciding not to send mail on random days at around 11am without reason or any real help in the logs. I've already moved from SCO OpenServer 5 -> Ubuntu 8.04 and had great success, this is the next logical step.
I knew what it was from the start, it's basically just a webmail type website that works with a bunch of common mail servers and other projects allowing for outlook connections. In my case my only benefit would be sleep, and I like sleeping. I was kind of hoping it would just work like webmin, but I see your point about people wanting to roll out their own solutions.
At this point I'm just wondering if I can just do cyrus + postfix + OpenChange. I only need IMAP,MAPI,SMTP,DNS (to make it independent), backups and built in authentication. To be honest, the less the better.
Please correct me if I'm mistaken and cannot do the 3 things above without sogo gluing them together. I realize some people need a web interface, we got outlook and phones so we don't need that.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [SOGo] Help needed, making a real admin tool for SOGO, needs commands.
Post by Mark Madere
Greetings,
I have looked through all the posts on this topic and I would like to add my two cents (, as we say in the US). I think many people commenting on this thread misunderstand SOGo and ZEG.
"The ZEG (Zero Effort Groupware) edition of SOGo is intended to provide a complete out-of-the-box testing environment of SOGo, the Open Source messaging and calendaring software."
"SOGo is fully supported and trusted groupware server with a focus on scalability and open standards. ... SOGo is the missing component of your infrastructure; it sits in the middle of your servers to offer your users an uniform and complete interface to access their information."
So what does that mean? It means ZEG is a virtual appliance to help you understand how SOGo works so you can setup your own servers. It means that SOGo is not a mail server. It is not a directory server. It is not a database server. It means that it has no users to manage.
If you are looking to use a testing environment like ZEG as a production server I think you will be disappointed that it lacks the features required for production. If you are looking to build your own production server, then SOGo can be a great component along side other components. The beauty of SOGo is that it can be configured to work with many systems. And because of that there is no way that SOGo can manage users from every directory/database/posix/etc. server. It is up to each administrator to setup and manage their mail servers, users accounts, databases, etc.. the way they want.
I hope this helps clarify what ZEG and SOGo are, and what they are not.
Mark
ps: If you are looking for turn-key solutions that includes SOGo, there are companies that can help you with that. If you want to roll your own solution and need help Inverse can provide you commercial support.
I think you have explained what we all know very well and it is the problem we are trying to solve. We want to roll our own turn key solution.
I don't know where open source software comes from or why. However I think it's significant that the components are free but putting it together into something someone can use costs money.
I want to build servers for my customers and charge them money. However I don't mind freely helping people with what I have learned so they can build servers for their customers.
If someone is making money from charging us server builders money so we can build servers, they are not going to be very happy if we figure out how to help each other for free. Hence why ZEG is not a full turn key solution. If it was an ISO it would be closer, hence it's a VM.
I think I probably need to change my entire world view.
--
Mobile: 07925 431381
Office: 01787 388165
--
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
--
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
--
***@sogo.nu
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
--
***@sogo.nu
htt
Mark Madere
2013-02-22 18:58:15 UTC
Permalink
M,

I am not sure what you mean by public folders. But if you are referring to a shared address book then SOGo can do that. My team shares several books which are owned by one user. The users who are sharing the books can add and edit cards.

I understand that you could survive with a non AD source for users. But I still don't know of a one that comes with an admin tool except for the one that I built myself. But my tool is not suited for your purposes.

Mark

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [SOGo] Help needed, making a real admin tool for SOGO, needs commands.
Date: Thursday, February 21, 2013 07:37 PM CST
Post by administrator
I see what you mean, we only really need 1 set of contacts (Not the active directory ones).
It's a contact list, created in a public folder. That is then configured to be the main contact list on all machines with outlook.
Forgot to ask if public folders are supported, that's the only single item that would be useful to create. We don't need to store emails or notes etc...
We have hundreds of AD users that we don't care to see for other types of access, we just have 10 mailbox users. I don't want this machine to have anything to do with any windows machine. I'm eliminating dependencies so even if the entire domain goes down, outlook and it's mail authentication will keep rolling happily along. I know all too well that when anything goes wrong at the active directory/exchange level, it's not just a little problem, it's catastrophic and time consuming. This is my new strategy so that rebooting servers won't affect other servers for stuff that doesn't need that much integration.
-M
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 7:59 PM
Subject: RE: [SOGo] Help needed, making a real admin tool for SOGO, needs commands.
Are you using Active directory to mange your exchange users? If so you can point SOGo at your AD server and manage your users the same way you always have.
I think rolling cyrus + postfix + OpenChange is an uphill battle. And it won't provide you with an admin tool. Also, are you sure your users don't want/use calendars and contacts?
I like sleep too,
Mark
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [SOGo] Help needed, making a real admin tool for SOGO, needs commands.
Date: Thursday, February 21, 2013 03:48 PM CST
Post by administrator
Me personally, it's a personal quest to abolish all things not open source from my workplace (I'm the IT admin/programmer/database/mail guy). I've got spiceworks taking care of watching my network and inventory, and exchange deciding not to send mail on random days at around 11am without reason or any real help in the logs. I've already moved from SCO OpenServer 5 -> Ubuntu 8.04 and had great success, this is the next logical step.
I knew what it was from the start, it's basically just a webmail type website that works with a bunch of common mail servers and other projects allowing for outlook connections. In my case my only benefit would be sleep, and I like sleeping. I was kind of hoping it would just work like webmin, but I see your point about people wanting to roll out their own solutions.
At this point I'm just wondering if I can just do cyrus + postfix + OpenChange. I only need IMAP,MAPI,SMTP,DNS (to make it independent), backups and built in authentication. To be honest, the less the better.
Please correct me if I'm mistaken and cannot do the 3 things above without sogo gluing them together. I realize some people need a web interface, we got outlook and phones so we don't need that.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [SOGo] Help needed, making a real admin tool for SOGO, needs commands.
Post by Mark Madere
Greetings,
I have looked through all the posts on this topic and I would like to add my two cents (, as we say in the US). I think many people commenting on this thread misunderstand SOGo and ZEG.
"The ZEG (Zero Effort Groupware) edition of SOGo is intended to provide a complete out-of-the-box testing environment of SOGo, the Open Source messaging and calendaring software."
"SOGo is fully supported and trusted groupware server with a focus on scalability and open standards. ... SOGo is the missing component of your infrastructure; it sits in the middle of your servers to offer your users an uniform and complete interface to access their information."
So what does that mean? It means ZEG is a virtual appliance to help you understand how SOGo works so you can setup your own servers. It means that SOGo is not a mail server. It is not a directory server. It is not a database server. It means that it has no users to manage.
If you are looking to use a testing environment like ZEG as a production server I think you will be disappointed that it lacks the features required for production. If you are looking to build your own production server, then SOGo can be a great component along side other components. The beauty of SOGo is that it can be configured to work with many systems. And because of that there is no way that SOGo can manage users from every directory/database/posix/etc. server. It is up to each administrator to setup and manage their mail servers, users accounts, databases, etc.. the way they want.
I hope this helps clarify what ZEG and SOGo are, and what they are not.
Mark
ps: If you are looking for turn-key solutions that includes SOGo, there are companies that can help you with that. If you want to roll your own solution and need help Inverse can provide you commercial support.
I think you have explained what we all know very well and it is the problem we are trying to solve. We want to roll our own turn key solution.
I don't know where open source software comes from or why. However I think it's significant that the components are free but putting it together into something someone can use costs money.
I want to build servers for my customers and charge them money. However I don't mind freely helping people with what I have learned so they can build servers for their customers.
If someone is making money from charging us server builders money so we can build servers, they are not going to be very happy if we figure out how to help each other for free. Hence why ZEG is not a full turn key solution. If it was an ISO it would be closer, hence it's a VM.
I think I probably need to change my entire world view.
--
Mobile: 07925 431381
Office: 01787 388165
--
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
--
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
--
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
--
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
administrator
2013-02-22 19:35:58 UTC
Permalink
I'll play around. Like I said as long as I can manage from the command line I can make a nice seto of open source tools for us.

Mark Madere <sogo-V9X8ah/JH3NtqK/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:


M,

I am not sure what you mean by public folders. But if you are referring to a shared address book then SOGo can do that. My team shares several books which are owned by one user. The users who are sharing the books can add and edit cards.

I understand that you could survive with a non AD source for users. But I still don't know of a one that comes with an admin tool except for the one that I built myself. But my tool is not suited for your purposes.

Mark

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [SOGo] Help needed, making a real admin tool for SOGO, needs commands.
Date: Thursday, February 21, 2013 07:37 PM CST
Post by administrator
I see what you mean, we only really need 1 set of contacts (Not the active directory ones).
It's a contact list, created in a public folder. That is then configured to be the main contact list on all machines with outlook.
Forgot to ask if public folders are supported, that's the only single item that would be useful to create. We don't need to store emails or notes etc...
We have hundreds of AD users that we don't care to see for other types of access, we just have 10 mailbox users. I don't want this machine to have anything to do with any windows machine. I'm eliminating dependencies so even if the entire domain goes down, outlook and it's mail authentication will keep rolling happily along. I know all too well that when anything goes wrong at the active directory/exchange level, it's not just a little problem, it's catastrophic and time consuming. This is my new strategy so that rebooting servers won't affect other servers for stuff that doesn't need that much integration.
-M
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 7:59 PM
Subject: RE: [SOGo] Help needed, making a real admin tool for SOGO, needs commands.
Are you using Active directory to mange your exchange users? If so you can point SOGo at your AD server and manage your users the same way you always have.
I think rolling cyrus + postfix + OpenChange is an uphill battle. And it won't provide you with an admin tool. Also, are you sure your users don't want/use calendars and contacts?
I like sleep too,
Mark
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [SOGo] Help needed, making a real admin tool for SOGO, needs commands.
Date: Thursday, February 21, 2013 03:48 PM CST
Post by administrator
Me personally, it's a personal quest to abolish all things not open source from my workplace (I'm the IT admin/programmer/database/mail guy). I've got spiceworks taking care of watching my network and inventory, and exchange deciding not to send mail on random days at around 11am without reason or any real help in the logs. I've already moved from SCO OpenServer 5 -> Ubuntu 8.04 and had great success, this is the next logical step.
I knew what it was from the start, it's basically just a webmail type website that works with a bunch of common mail servers and other projects allowing for outlook connections. In my case my only benefit would be sleep, and I like sleeping. I was kind of hoping it would just work like webmin, but I see your point about people wanting to roll out their own solutions.
At this point I'm just wondering if I can just do cyrus + postfix + OpenChange. I only need IMAP,MAPI,SMTP,DNS (to make it independent), backups and built in authentication. To be honest, the less the better.
Please correct me if I'm mistaken and cannot do the 3 things above without sogo gluing them together. I realize some people need a web interface, we got outlook and phones so we don't need that.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [SOGo] Help needed, making a real admin tool for SOGO, needs commands.
Post by Mark Madere
Greetings,
I have looked through all the posts on this topic and I would like to add my two cents (, as we say in the US). I think many people commenting on this thread misunderstand SOGo and ZEG.
"The ZEG (Zero Effort Groupware) edition of SOGo is intended to provide a complete out-of-the-box testing environment of SOGo, the Open Source messaging and calendaring software."
"SOGo is fully supported and trusted groupware server with a focus on scalability and open standards. ... SOGo is the missing component of your infrastructure; it sits in the middle of your servers to offer your users an uniform and complete interface to access their information."
So what does that mean? It means ZEG is a virtual appliance to help you understand how SOGo works so you can setup your own servers. It means that SOGo is not a mail server. It is not a directory server. It is not a database server. It means that it has no users to manage.
If you are looking to use a testing environment like ZEG as a production server I think you will be disappointed that it lacks the features required for production. If you are looking to build your own production server, then SOGo can be a great component along side other components. The beauty of SOGo is that it can be configured to work with many systems. And because of that there is no way that SOGo can manage users from every directory/database/posix/etc. server. It is up to each administrator to setup and manage their mail servers, users accounts, databases, etc.. the way they want.
I hope this helps clarify what ZEG and SOGo are, and what they are not.
Mark
ps: If you are looking for turn-key solutions that includes SOGo, there are companies that can help you with that. If you want to roll your own solution and need help Inverse can provide you commercial support.
I think you have explained what we all know very well and it is the problem we are trying to solve. We want to roll our own turn key solution.
I don't know where open source software comes from or why. However I think it's significant that the components are free but putting it together into something someone can use costs money.
I want to build servers for my customers and charge them money. However I don't mind freely helping people with what I have learned so they can build servers for their customers.
If someone is making money from charging us server builders money so we can build servers, they are not going to be very happy if we figure out how to help each other for free. Hence why ZEG is not a full turn key solution. If it was an ISO it would be closer, hence it's a VM.
I think I probably need to change my entire world view.
--
Mobile: 07925 431381
Office: 01787 388165
--
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
--
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
--
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
--
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
--
users-***@public.gmane.org
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
--
users-***@public.gmane.org
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Wayland Sothcott
2013-02-22 11:10:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Madere
Are you using Active directory to mange your exchange users? If so you can point SOGo at your AD server and manage your users the same way you always have.
I think rolling cyrus + postfix + OpenChange is an uphill battle. And it won't provide you with an admin tool. Also, are you sure your users don't want/use calendars and contacts?
I like sleep too,
Mark
Crikey, I thought the whole point of this SOGo experience was to do
contacts and diaries. Drop those and it's a basic IMAP server which will
do everything. If someone extended IMAP to do contacts and calendars
then we would be set.
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Office: 01787 388165
Wayland Sothcott
2013-02-22 11:06:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by administrator
Me personally, it's a personal quest to abolish all things not open source from my workplace (I'm the IT admin/programmer/database/mail guy). I've got spiceworks taking care of watching my network and inventory, and exchange deciding not to send mail on random days at around 11am without reason or any real help in the logs. I've already moved from SCO OpenServer 5 -> Ubuntu 8.04 and had great success, this is the next logical step.
I knew what it was from the start, it's basically just a webmail type website that works with a bunch of common mail servers and other projects allowing for outlook connections. In my case my only benefit would be sleep, and I like sleeping. I was kind of hoping it would just work like webmin, but I see your point about people wanting to roll out their own solutions.
At this point I'm just wondering if I can just do cyrus + postfix + OpenChange. I only need IMAP,MAPI,SMTP,DNS (to make it independent), backups and built in authentication. To be honest, the less the better.
Please correct me if I'm mistaken and cannot do the 3 things above without sogo gluing them together. I realize some people need a web interface, we got outlook and phones so we don't need that.
Drop the MAPI and you can use Zentyal Community edition or ClearOS
community edition.
--
Mobile: 07925 431381
Office: 01787 388165
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