[SOGo] Exchange 2003 -> Sogo

[EFEKT PAWKI]

Hello.
I have to migrate from Exchange 2003 to something else.
My users will kill me if I force them to switch from MS Outlook to
something else.

How Sogo behave with account with a lot of data using Active Sync protocol?
Especially owner of company - he have 5GB of OST and 45 in PST.

Calendar is full of meettings etc...
Will Sogo be able to work fluently with such amount of data?
There will be about 100 mailboxes.
Best regards. Pawel

[Martin Simovic]

Hi,

I recommend you test your setup before the actual migration. ActiveSync can be very resource demanding, especially with large mailboxes. At the moment, every EAS connection requires a separate sogod process, which in your case means you need 32+ GB RAM - assuming your users use Outlook only (and not the phone, etc.) Add one more device per user (e.g. Android phone) and amount of required RAM duplicates.

Best Regards
Martin.

Post by EFEKT PAWKI
Hello.
I have to migrate from Exchange 2003 to something else.
My users will kill me if I force them to switch from MS Outlook to something else.
How Sogo behave with account with a lot of data using Active Sync protocol?
Especially owner of company - he have 5GB of OST and 45 in PST.
Calendar is full of meettings etc...
Will Sogo be able to work fluently with such amount of data?
There will be about 100 mailboxes.
Best regards. Pawel
--
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists

[Steve Ankeny]

Martin . . .

Am I right in understanding your suggestion does not involve
OpenChange? Would that limit a user to Outlook 2013? It appears to
require a lot of resources to implement, and even then, there appear to
be limitations.

pg. 51-55, SOGo Installation and Configuration Guide

From my view, this is certainly preferable to using OpenChange

Post by Martin Simovic
Hi,
I recommend you test your setup before the actual migration.
ActiveSync can be very resource demanding, especially with large
mailboxes. At the moment, every EAS connection requires a separate
sogod process, which in your case means you need 32+ GB RAM - assuming
your users use Outlook only (and not the phone, etc.) Add one more
device per user (e.g. Android phone) and amount of required RAM
duplicates.
Best Regards
Martin.

Post by EFEKT PAWKI
Hello.
I have to migrate from Exchange 2003 to something else.
My users will kill me if I force them to switch from MS Outlook to something else.
How Sogo behave with account with a lot of data using Active Sync protocol?
Especially owner of company - he have 5GB of OST and 45 in PST.
Calendar is full of meettings etc...
Will Sogo be able to work fluently with such amount of data?
There will be about 100 mailboxes.
Best regards. Pawel
--
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists

[Martin Simovic]

Hi Steve,

You are right - my suggestion does not involve openchange at all. Openchange would be certainly better option, but do you know anyone who has *working* openchange setup? In production?

Best Regards
Martin.

Post by Steve Ankeny
Martin . . .
Am I right in understanding your suggestion does not involve OpenChange? Would that limit a user to Outlook 2013? It appears to require a lot of resources to implement, and even then, there appear to be limitations.
pg. 51-55, SOGo Installation and Configuration Guide
From my view, this is certainly preferable to using OpenChange

Post by Martin Simovic
Hi,
I recommend you test your setup before the actual migration. ActiveSync can be very resource demanding, especially with large mailboxes. At the moment, every EAS connection requires a separate sogod process, which in your case means you need 32+ GB RAM - assuming your users use Outlook only (and not the phone, etc.) Add one more device per user (e.g. Android phone) and amount of required RAM duplicates.
Best Regards
Martin.

Post by EFEKT PAWKI
Hello.
I have to migrate from Exchange 2003 to something else.
My users will kill me if I force them to switch from MS Outlook to something else.
How Sogo behave with account with a lot of data using Active Sync protocol?
Especially owner of company - he have 5GB of OST and 45 in PST.
Calendar is full of meettings etc...
Will Sogo be able to work fluently with such amount of data?
There will be about 100 mailboxes.
Best regards. Pawel
--
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists <https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists>

--
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists

[Quique]

Hello Martin,

With OpenChange, you will have support from Outlook 2003 to Outlook 2010.
There are users in production with OpenChange. There are rough edges but
for a normal usage it will work.

Best,

Post by Martin Simovic
Hi Steve,
You are right - my suggestion does not involve openchange at all.
Openchange would be certainly better option, but do you know anyone who has
*working* openchange setup? In production?
Best Regards
Martin.
Martin . . .
Am I right in understanding your suggestion does not involve OpenChange?
Would that limit a user to Outlook 2013? It appears to require a lot of
resources to implement, and even then, there appear to be limitations.
pg. 51-55, SOGo Installation and Configuration Guide
From my view, this is certainly preferable to using OpenChange
Hi,
I recommend you test your setup before the actual migration. ActiveSync
can be very resource demanding, especially with large mailboxes. At the
moment, every EAS connection requires a separate sogod process, which in
your case means you need 32+ GB RAM - assuming your users use Outlook only
(and not the phone, etc.) Add one more device per user (e.g. Android phone)
and amount of required RAM duplicates.
Best Regards
Martin.
Hello.
I have to migrate from Exchange 2003 to something else.
My users will kill me if I force them to switch from MS Outlook to something else.
How Sogo behave with account with a lot of data using Active Sync protocol?
Especially owner of company - he have 5GB of OST and 45 in PST.
Calendar is full of meettings etc...
Will Sogo be able to work fluently with such amount of data?
There will be about 100 mailboxes.
Best regards. Pawel
--
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
--
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists

[Martin Simovic]

Hi,

Post by Quique
Hello Martin,
With OpenChange, you will have support from Outlook 2003 to Outlook 2010. There are users in production with OpenChange. There are rough edges but for a normal usage it will work.

Is automatic Inbox refresh triggered on new mail arrival working? Last time I checked it wasn’t.

Best,
Martin.

[Johannes Faber]

Post by Martin Simovic
Hi,

Post by Quique
Hello Martin,
With OpenChange, you will have support from Outlook 2003 to Outlook
2010. There are users in production with OpenChange. There are rough
edges but for a normal usage it will work.

Is automatic Inbox refresh triggered on new mail arrival working? Last
time I checked it wasn’t.

No. You need the dovecot plugin for this and it is not in the repository.

Regards,

Johannes

[Johannes Faber]

Hi,

"rough edges" is a real underestimating term ;)

Here is what came out after a long evaluation and polishing the rough edges.

What was positive:

- It is possible to share AD with a real Windows DC, as long it is 2008
and Samba is a DC (making it everything a bit more complicated). Member
server does not work.
- Autodiscover does work with Outlook and different DNs than the
defaults for users, if you change the hard coded DNs in the python
autodiscover scripts.
- Simple addressbook and calendar stuff for Outlook works.
- Out of office function for Outlook works (but only for external
contacts, as there is no support in SOGo for internal contacts).

What was negative:

- Multiple personal addressbook in Outlook do not work properly.
- If automatic email completion does not work, start from scratch for
the user.
- Outlook stops syncing out of nowhere.
- Outlook crashs for no apparent reason. If it crashs directly after
launch, start from scratch for the user.
- Outlook in a non-english language seems even more unstable.
- Automatic Inbox notification does not work (even after self-compiling
and installing the dovecot plugin. The documentation here is sparse).
- You are never sure, that everthing from Outlook is in sync with the
server.
- Some Outlook problems where only solvable by clearing the SOGo cache
or even worse by recreating the user on the server site. A new Outlook
profile was in most cases not enough.
- Migration from existing user data triggered some obscure behaviour.
- SOGo develops the backend and Zentyl develops OpenChange.

So if you can go with Outlook 2013 and EAS. Avoid OpenChange or plan a
long evaluation phase to catch all problems.

Regards,

Johannes

Post by Quique
Hello Martin,
With OpenChange, you will have support from Outlook 2003 to Outlook
2010. There are users in production with OpenChange. There are rough
edges but for a normal usage it will work.
Best,
Hi Steve,
You are right - my suggestion does not involve openchange at all.
Openchange would be certainly better option, but do you know anyone
who has *working* openchange setup? In production?
Best Regards
Martin.

Post by Steve Ankeny
Martin . . .
Am I right in understanding your suggestion does not involve
OpenChange? Would that limit a user to Outlook 2013? It appears
to require a lot of resources to implement, and even then, there
appear to be limitations.
pg. 51-55, SOGo Installation and Configuration Guide
From my view, this is certainly preferable to using OpenChange

Post by Martin Simovic
Hi,
I recommend you test your setup before the actual migration.
ActiveSync can be very resource demanding, especially with large
mailboxes. At the moment, every EAS connection requires a
separate sogod process, which in your case means you need 32+ GB
RAM - assuming your users use Outlook only (and not the phone,
etc.) Add one more device per user (e.g. Android phone) and
amount of required RAM duplicates.
Best Regards
Martin.

On 10 Mar 2016, at 15:36, EFEKT PAWKI
Hello.
I have to migrate from Exchange 2003 to something else.
My users will kill me if I force them to switch from MS Outlook
to something else.
How Sogo behave with account with a lot of data using Active Sync protocol?
Especially owner of company - he have 5GB of OST and 45 in PST.
Calendar is full of meettings etc...
Will Sogo be able to work fluently with such amount of data?
There will be about 100 mailboxes.
Best regards. Pawel
--
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists

--
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists

--
Quique
Wikipedia: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usuario:Sixstone
Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/user/sixstone
--
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists

[Jesús García Sáez]

Post by Johannes Faber
Hi,
"rough edges" is a real underestimating term ;)
Here is what came out after a long evaluation and polishing the rough edges.

when or with which version was your evaluation?

Post by Johannes Faber
- It is possible to share AD with a real Windows DC, as long it is 2008
and Samba is a DC (making it everything a bit more complicated). Member
server does not work.
- Autodiscover does work with Outlook and different DNs than the defaults
for users, if you change the hard coded DNs in the python autodiscover
scripts.
- Simple addressbook and calendar stuff for Outlook works.
- Out of office function for Outlook works (but only for external
contacts, as there is no support in SOGo for internal contacts).
- Multiple personal addressbook in Outlook do not work properly.

Works for me. And even sharing works now too.

Post by Johannes Faber
- If automatic email completion does not work, start from scratch for the
user.

I guess maybe you have to open the address book before email completion
works, I'm not sure never dig into that because I've never seen the issue.

Post by Johannes Faber
- Outlook stops syncing out of nowhere.

This was the main reason in the past, now really unlikely to happen.

Post by Johannes Faber
- Outlook crashs for no apparent reason. If it crashs directly after
launch, start from scratch for the user.

Known bug in the past (related with custom views on folders), now it
shouldn't happen.

Post by Johannes Faber
- Outlook in a non-english language seems even more unstable.

win+r, outlook /resetfoldernames and good to go. Known issues in the past
with non-ascii characters (specially with cyrillic languages), all fixed by
now.

Post by Johannes Faber
- Automatic Inbox notification does not work (even after self-compiling
and installing the dovecot plugin. The documentation here is sparse).

Notifications work, doc about how to install and configure it
https://github.com/blaxter/openchange/blob/master/mapiproxy/services/plugins/dovecot/README.md

Post by Johannes Faber
- You are never sure, that everthing from Outlook is in sync with the
server.

Actually you can. If there is some problem you could check the Sync Issues
folder, and also you could, on any folder, right click, properties and go
to synchronization tab (where you can see items on server and downloaded
items, they should be the same)

Post by Johannes Faber
- Some Outlook problems where only solvable by clearing the SOGo cache or
even worse by recreating the user on the server site. A new Outlook profile
was in most cases not enough.

Again this was very common in the past (even there is a script to do this
securely) but now it should be the exception.

Post by Johannes Faber
- Migration from existing user data triggered some obscure behaviour.

Night is dark and full of terrors

Post by Johannes Faber
- SOGo develops the backend and Zentyal develops OpenChange.

That was right but nowadays I'm not sure about the latter. So basically
development is stalled.

Post by Johannes Faber
So if you can go with Outlook 2013 and EAS. Avoid OpenChange or plan a
long evaluation phase to catch all problems.

I agree with the conclusion though (mostly because of the last point).

Post by Johannes Faber
Regards,
Johannes

[Quique]

Hi there,

Post by Johannes Faber
- If automatic email completion does not work, start from scratch for the

Post by Johannes Faber
user.

I guess maybe you have to open the address book before email completion
works, I'm not sure never dig into that because I've never seen the issue.

It is working from zentyal/openchange package
https://github.com/zentyal/openchange/releases/tag/2.4-zentyal18 onwards to
persist the autocomplete list. Try with a new profile if you are upgrading
or clean the autocompletion list as described in Microsoft documentation:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/287623
- SOGo develops the backend and Zentyal develops OpenChange.

Post by Johannes Faber
That was right but nowadays I'm not sure about the latter. So basically
development is stalled.

Post by Johannes Faber
So if you can go with Outlook 2013 and EAS. Avoid OpenChange or plan a
long evaluation phase to catch all problems.

I agree with the conclusion though (mostly because of the last point).

I agree with other points Jesús has pointed out.

[mj]

Hi,

Post by Jesús García Sáez
That was right but nowadays I'm not sure about the latter. So basically
development is stalled.

Is there somewhere where we can read up on this? I didn't know this. Is
it a temporarily thing, or is it really abandoned?

MJ

[Jesús García Sáez]

Hi,

Post by Jesús García Sáez
That was right but nowadays I'm not sure about the latter. So basically
development is stalled.

Is there somewhere where we can read up on this? I didn't know this. Is it
a temporarily thing, or is it really abandoned?

No, but I'm part of openchange team [0] and until recently I was working on
Zentyal (developing openchange mostly) so I know from first hand that right
now nobody is actively developing openchange. This doesn't mean the project
is dead/abandoned but only that the updates won't be as frequent as lately
(because on Zentyal we were several developers working on openchange but
all of them are out).


[0] http://openchange.org/about/team.html

[Chris]

On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 6:32 PM, Johannes Faber
Hi,
"rough edges" is a real underestimating term ;)
Here is what came out after a long evaluation and polishing the rough edges.
when or with which version was your evaluation?
- It is possible to share AD with a real Windows DC, as long it is
2008 and Samba is a DC (making it everything a bit more
complicated). Member server does not work.
- Autodiscover does work with Outlook and different DNs than the
defaults for users, if you change the hard coded DNs in the python
autodiscover scripts.
- Simple addressbook and calendar stuff for Outlook works.
- Out of office function for Outlook works (but only for external
contacts, as there is no support in SOGo for internal contacts).
- Multiple personal addressbook in Outlook do not work properly.
Works for me. And even sharing works now too.
- If automatic email completion does not work, start from scratch
for the user.
I guess maybe you have to open the address book before email
completion works, I'm not sure never dig into that because I've never
seen the issue.
- Outlook stops syncing out of nowhere.
This was the main reason in the past, now really unlikely to happen.
- Outlook crashs for no apparent reason. If it crashs directly
after launch, start from scratch for the user.
Known bug in the past (related with custom views on folders), now it
shouldn't happen.
- Outlook in a non-english language seems even more unstable.
win+r, outlook /resetfoldernames and good to go. Known issues in the
past with non-ascii characters (specially with cyrillic languages),
all fixed by now.
- Automatic Inbox notification does not work (even after
self-compiling and installing the dovecot plugin. The
documentation here is sparse).
Notifications work, doc about how to install and configure it
https://github.com/blaxter/openchange/blob/master/mapiproxy/services/plugins/dovecot/README.md
- You are never sure, that everthing from Outlook is in sync with
the server.
Actually you can. If there is some problem you could check the Sync
Issues folder, and also you could, on any folder, right click,
properties and go to synchronization tab (where you can see items on
server and downloaded items, they should be the same)
- Some Outlook problems where only solvable by clearing the SOGo
cache or even worse by recreating the user on the server site. A
new Outlook profile was in most cases not enough.
Again this was very common in the past (even there is a script to do
this securely) but now it should be the exception.
- Migration from existing user data triggered some obscure behaviour.
Night is dark and full of terrors
- SOGo develops the backend and Zentyal develops OpenChange.
That was right but nowadays I'm not sure about the latter. So
basically development is stalled.
So if you can go with Outlook 2013 and EAS. Avoid OpenChange or
plan a long evaluation phase to catch all problems.
I agree with the conclusion though (mostly because of the last point).
Regards,
Johannes

Johannes:
It would be better if you would post steps to reproduce your bugs.
It's too easy to say, "this feature is giving a bug," without showing
step by step how that bug can be reproduced by anyone so the dev could
reproduce it troubleshoot it and fix the code.

Jesus:
Same, but you should post steps to reproduce the successful scenarios
that make the software work as you described above.
It's too easy to say, "it works for me" without showing step by step how
you got it to work.

[EFEKT PAWKI]

Hello.
Now Exchange 2003 is running on multihomed SBS without a problem on a
wooden server - AMD 2x2,2Ghz, 3,5GB RAM (32bit os) with AD, DNS, DHCP, VPN
without a problem and performance problems.
All users files take abut 60GB on server. Archives are out of server on PST
files - so outside server.
You think I have to test it before I will switch whole company? 32+GB RAM
will need sogo to run same amount of data?

As another option I take Zimbra with z-push - I will have to force them to
use Zimbra desktop instead of Outlook.
Best regards. Pawka

Post by Martin Simovic
Hi,
I recommend you test your setup before the actual migration. ActiveSync
can be very resource demanding, especially with large mailboxes. At the
moment, every EAS connection requires a separate sogod process, which in
your case means you need 32+ GB RAM - assuming your users use Outlook only
(and not the phone, etc.) Add one more device per user (e.g. Android phone)
and amount of required RAM duplicates.
Best Regards
Martin.
Hello.
I have to migrate from Exchange 2003 to something else.
My users will kill me if I force them to switch from MS Outlook to something else.
How Sogo behave with account with a lot of data using Active Sync protocol?
Especially owner of company - he have 5GB of OST and 45 in PST.
Calendar is full of meettings etc...
Will Sogo be able to work fluently with such amount of data?
There will be about 100 mailboxes.
Best regards. Pawel
--
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists

[Ludovic Marcotte]

Post by EFEKT PAWKI
Now Exchange 2003 is running on multihomed SBS without a problem on a
wooden server - AMD 2x2,2Ghz, 3,5GB RAM (32bit os) with AD, DNS, DHCP,
VPN without a problem and performance problems.
All users files take abut 60GB on server. Archives are out of server
on PST files - so outside server.
You think I have to test it before I will switch whole company? 32+GB
RAM will need sogo to run same amount of data?

You should consider 25-45 MB of memory per EAS user. This should even
goes a bit down in the upcoming release.

[Chris]

Post by Ludovic Marcotte

Post by EFEKT PAWKI
Now Exchange 2003 is running on multihomed SBS without a problem on a
wooden server - AMD 2x2,2Ghz, 3,5GB RAM (32bit os) with AD, DNS,
DHCP, VPN without a problem and performance problems.
All users files take abut 60GB on server. Archives are out of server
on PST files - so outside server.
You think I have to test it before I will switch whole company? 32+GB
RAM will need sogo to run same amount of data?

You should consider 25-45 MB of memory per EAS user. This should even
goes a bit down in the upcoming release.

That's good news.
The algorithm which Microsoft is using to perform EAS is probably 10x
more efficient with memory and time.
Is there a way to look at the MS EAS algorithm with fresh eyes, analyze
it until we can deduce how it must be implement, and use these findings
to improve the compatible EAS algorithm, so it can run in the same, or
better, memory and time, as the Microsoft EAS algorithm.

[Martin Simovic]

Hi

Post by EFEKT PAWKI
Hello.
Now Exchange 2003 is running on multihomed SBS without a problem on a wooden server - AMD 2x2,2Ghz, 3,5GB RAM (32bit os) with AD, DNS, DHCP, VPN without a problem and performance problems.
All users files take abut 60GB on server. Archives are out of server on PST files - so outside server.
You think I have to test it before I will switch whole company? 32+GB RAM will need sogo to run same amount of data?

Yes - if you plan to use ActiveSync. Alternatively, you can:

1. Not use Outlook. Options left are: Thunderbird + SOGo Connector or Webmail client.
2. Use Outlook configured for IMAP. Use some sort of CalDav/CardDav sync tool to enable calendars/contacts support.
3. Use Outlook configured for MAPI. For this you need SOGo + Openchange. Openchange is an element that enables (in conjunction with SOGo) native Outlook support. This, however requires IMO even more testing then EAS. I personally don’t know anyone that runs Openchange in production without issues.

Post by EFEKT PAWKI
As another option I take Zimbra with z-push - I will have to force them to use Zimbra desktop instead of Outlook.
Best regards. Pawka

Don’t know anything about Zimbra. Tested Zarafa in the past, with mixed results. Good luck forcing your users out of Outlook ;-)

Hope this helps,
Best Regards

Martin.

Post by EFEKT PAWKI
Hi,
I recommend you test your setup before the actual migration. ActiveSync can be very resource demanding, especially with large mailboxes. At the moment, every EAS connection requires a separate sogod process, which in your case means you need 32+ GB RAM - assuming your users use Outlook only (and not the phone, etc.) Add one more device per user (e.g. Android phone) and amount of required RAM duplicates.
Best Regards
Martin.

Post by EFEKT PAWKI
Hello.
I have to migrate from Exchange 2003 to something else.
My users will kill me if I force them to switch from MS Outlook to something else.
How Sogo behave with account with a lot of data using Active Sync protocol?
Especially owner of company - he have 5GB of OST and 45 in PST.
Calendar is full of meettings etc...
Will Sogo be able to work fluently with such amount of data?
There will be about 100 mailboxes.
Best regards. Pawel
--
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists <https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists>

--
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists